Comments on: Art and commerce http://artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html a multi-disciplinary dialog Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:24:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: John Joannides http://artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2385 John Joannides Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:48 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2385 Doug, very interesting post. One of the things I enjoy reading about the most is the one that has been described as the "lightbulb" moment. You say this was connected with an understanding or recognition of mortality and priority which are sentiments in some ways similar to that described in "The Myth of Talent" by Craig M. Tanner, another excellent read. The problem with these lightbulb moments is that many of us have the feelings and experience the motivating factors behind recognition but, when looking at the lightbulb, don't even see a flicker. We know that things as they stand are not quite right but self doubt and responsibility for the welfare of others override the desire to immerse oneself completely in the dream and feed that inexorable feeling that one *needs* to create images. This quickly turns into a kind of disrespect for self and a cynicism of the whole notion of making a living through making images. Echoes of “don’t be silly” bubble of through the subconscious. Hearing success stories such as yours help to temper these feelings and helpt to give a little more authority to that “creative voice”. Doug, very interesting post. One of the things I enjoy reading about the most is the one that has been described as the “lightbulb” moment. You say this was connected with an understanding or recognition of mortality and priority which are sentiments in some ways similar to that described in “The Myth of Talent” by Craig M. Tanner, another excellent read.

The problem with these lightbulb moments is that many of us have the feelings and experience the motivating factors behind recognition but, when looking at the lightbulb, don’t even see a flicker. We know that things as they stand are not quite right but self doubt and responsibility for the welfare of others override the desire to immerse oneself completely in the dream and feed that inexorable feeling that one *needs* to create images. This quickly turns into a kind of disrespect for self and a cynicism of the whole notion of making a living through making images. Echoes of “don’t be silly” bubble of through the subconscious.

Hearing success stories such as yours help to temper these feelings and helpt to give a little more authority to that “creative voice”.

]]> By: David http://artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2383 David Wed, 13 Dec 2006 05:37:55 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2383 Doug, excellent post, and I also really enjoyed looking at your work. I've had a similar experience, though the effect the commercial work has had on my personal work was quite different, and unexpected. I bring a great deal of my art skills to my film effects work, though I never think of it as art. And I've learned a lot of things from this and other art jobs in the past, that have given me a broad range of technical skills in many mediums, and improved my work habits. But the unexpected thing that happened was that after I had been working for awhile doing realistic effects for films using computers, I had trouble going to my studio afterwards and being excited about making realistic oil paintings. Even though the medium was different, it still felt too much like my day job. I eventually put away the paint and started working in linoleum. Doug, excellent post, and I also really enjoyed looking at your work.

I’ve had a similar experience, though the effect the commercial work has had on my personal work was quite different, and unexpected.

I bring a great deal of my art skills to my film effects work, though I never think of it as art. And I’ve learned a lot of things from this and other art jobs in the past, that have given me a broad range of technical skills in many mediums, and improved my work habits.

But the unexpected thing that happened was that after I had been working for awhile doing realistic effects for films using computers, I had trouble going to my studio afterwards and being excited about making realistic oil paintings. Even though the medium was different, it still felt too much like my day job. I eventually put away the paint and started working in linoleum.

]]> By: Doug Plummer http://artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2373 Doug Plummer Wed, 13 Dec 2006 00:16:32 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2373 Being a commercial shooter means that most all of my attention is engaged with the photographic process in one way or another. It makes me fluent in lots of photographic modalities. Photo Lucida 2005 was a shock that I'm still recovering from. There I really got the feedback that I do play it too safe in the personal work. Since then the digital transition has muddied the process a lot, in both good and bad ways. I can shoot more spontaneously, but then I have to deal with the flood of imagery and figure out what new it's telling me. And much of my daily attention is to technology, not images. What seems to be settling out is that I'm devoting a lot more attention to a body of work that most people don't get, my "Stick Pictures," landscape studies in dense, brushy environments. I shoot it now both on film (it's the only thing I still do with film) and digitally. It is work with no commercial crossover. It is where I do my deep work as a photographer. When I show it to Tony Bannon at review events, he rips it apart and shows me where it isn't yet fulfilled, where I'm missing the mark. I'm looking forward to him doing it again to me this spring at Photo Lucida 2007. I’m also doing a documentary project, still with a deeply personal component, that I hope will have some commercial and popular appeal, a project on traditional contra dance. My commercial work bleeds over into this in two ways, one, it’s funding it (my grant applications have all been unsuccessful), and two, all my technical skills are required to make compelling photographs in this highly dynamic environment. You can find links to both these bodies of work in the Archives section of my website. Being a commercial shooter means that most all of my attention is engaged with the photographic process in one way or another. It makes me fluent in lots of photographic modalities.

Photo Lucida 2005 was a shock that I’m still recovering from. There I really got the feedback that I do play it too safe in the personal work. Since then the digital transition has muddied the process a lot, in both good and bad ways. I can shoot more spontaneously, but then I have to deal with the flood of imagery and figure out what new it’s telling me. And much of my daily attention is to technology, not images.

What seems to be settling out is that I’m devoting a lot more attention to a body of work that most people don’t get, my “Stick Pictures,” landscape studies in dense, brushy environments. I shoot it now both on film (it’s the only thing I still do with film) and digitally. It is work with no commercial crossover. It is where I do my deep work as a photographer. When I show it to Tony Bannon at review events, he rips it apart and shows me where it isn’t yet fulfilled, where I’m missing the mark. I’m looking forward to him doing it again to me this spring at Photo Lucida 2007.

I’m also doing a documentary project, still with a deeply personal component, that I hope will have some commercial and popular appeal, a project on traditional contra dance. My commercial work bleeds over into this in two ways, one, it’s funding it (my grant applications have all been unsuccessful), and two, all my technical skills are required to make compelling photographs in this highly dynamic environment.

You can find links to both these bodies of work in the Archives section of my website.

]]> By: Karl Zipser http://artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2369 Karl Zipser Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:40:59 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2369 Doug, Thanks for this fascinating discussion of commercial and personal art making. When I see a painting by Jan van Eyck, I'd like to think it is the "real" work, even if it was done on assignment -- which most of it probably was. Is it possible that your commercial work is more "real" than you admit? Do you think that important artists of the Renaissance didn't consider their commissions as "real" work? It is possible, I suppose. Doug,

Thanks for this fascinating discussion of commercial and personal art making.

When I see a painting by Jan van Eyck, I’d like to think it is the “real” work, even if it was done on assignment — which most of it probably was.

Is it possible that your commercial work is more “real” than you admit? Do you think that important artists of the Renaissance didn’t consider their commissions as “real” work? It is possible, I suppose.

]]> By: Steve http://artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2366 Steve Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:12:33 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2366 Birgit, You can select individual photos by first clicking on the Portfolios or the Archives links at the top of Doug's page, and choosing from there. The first seems more commercial, the second more personal. However, the Sticks gallery seems to be broken, though I've seen some of it in the past. It's particularly interesting for me to learn from, as I have a portfolio with similar subject matter. Birgit,
You can select individual photos by first clicking on the Portfolios or the Archives links at the top of Doug’s page, and choosing from there. The first seems more commercial, the second more personal. However, the Sticks gallery seems to be broken, though I’ve seen some of it in the past. It’s particularly interesting for me to learn from, as I have a portfolio with similar subject matter.

]]> By: Colin Jago http://artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2365 Colin Jago Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:01:19 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2365 Doug, <i>The “lightbulb” moment was one of those mortality moments</i> Ah, yes, I can understand that. Even if I've rather gone the other way. Doug,

The “lightbulb” moment was one of those mortality moments

Ah, yes, I can understand that. Even if I’ve rather gone the other way.

]]> By: John http://artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2361 John Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:36:28 +0000 http://www.artandperception.com/2006/12/art-and-commerce.html#comment-2361 Well Doug, that's an interesting subject. I kind of feel the two things can create a feedback loop. You do a picture you want to do, the way you want to do it. Customers comment on the picture and that gives you ideas and inspiration for the next one. And so on. It doesn't always go like that of course, but it can. Well Doug, that’s an interesting subject. I kind of feel the two things can create a feedback loop. You do a picture you want to do, the way you want to do it. Customers comment on the picture and that gives you ideas and inspiration for the next one. And so on.
It doesn’t always go like that of course, but it can.

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